no fan no a/c, heating element working

Questions about repairs and parts for Coleman furnaces, air conditioners and heat pumps for manufactured homes. Click here for Coleman parts.

Moderators: ponch37300, Mark, flcruising, Greg

no fan no a/c, heating element working

Postby spdrcr » Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:16 pm

ok this is kind of a long story but here goes...

coleman electric furnace 3500A812
Nordyne A/C C1QA-030U
2 wire relay box 901698

used the heat for 2 winters with no problems, a/c for 3 summers with no problems.... went to turn on my heat for the first time the other day and nothing happened, no fan, no heating elements.... checked the a/c and it worked just fine

i asked a buddy of mine if he could look at it for me (he does this stuff where i work but doesnt really have time to do side jobs) he does some checking, main fuses good, heating elements seem to be ok, we opened the relay box, when the lid was taken off the relay box, the wires still attached to the switches on the front, i noticed that depending on how i held the lid the outside unit would come on.... couldnt duplicate it after wiggling all the wires... fan was removed to check the heating elements for being burnt in two, everything reinstalled, then with t-stat set on 90, and heat and auto/on switch set to on, the 3110-3301 relay chatters... if set to auto nothing happens no matter what.... now a/c doesn't work either.... with t-stat set to 50, and switches set to on and cool, the same relay chatters, if set to auto, the outside unit and the relay both chatter. he told me to treplace both relays and the sequencer....

i replaced the 3110-3301 relay, same thing, i am not able to get the other relay in less than a week.... i replaced the sequencer... my original sequencer looked like 2 sequencers on one plate, connected at bottom terminals with a metal bar (jumpers i assume), the right hand sequencer is shorter and 2 terminals less than the other one.... the one i replaced it with was a generic with a napco p/n ns106, which has 2 identical sequencers tied together with 2 metal jumpers.... i assume this would work the same considering the only wire on the right hand sequencer is a small white wire on the brass colored terminal......

after all this the heat elements come on, in auto heat, but no fan, and after a min or so i hear a click and the heat elements turn off (high-temp limit switch i assume)... a/c still does nothing and there is no longer a chattering relay.....

please help... sorry for the long explanation....
spdrcr
 

RE: no fan no a/c, heating element working

Postby Robert » Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:11 pm

Hi,

Give me any and all part numbers on any parts inside box.


The reason is that you gave a p/n for box as 901698 which is a Nordyne a/c control box.


You have a Coleman furnace and a Nordyne a/c and can have either control box, so that's fine.


However, the 3110-3301 blower relay you referred is a Coleman relay inside a Nordyne a/c box.


Again, ok, but I need to know what is there due to it obviously being changed in past.


Also, remove cover to t-stat and tell me how many wires are connected.


I may not be back on until tomorrow, but with this mixture, real easy to have problems worsen once one has started.


Will give you easiest and least expensive way to resolve this.



Thanks,
Robert
Some people are Humbly Grateful, while some are Grumbly Hateful.................... Which one are you ?
User avatar
Robert
Moderator
 
Posts: 6413
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:07 am
Location: Tennessee

Postby spdrcr » Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:35 am

2 wire thermostat..... ive looked for part numbers on the parts but i just dont see any numbers on parts, it is a nordyne a/c unit and a nordyne 2 wire relay box.... the place i got parts from called coleman and nordyne and they both said that the relay will work in either one.... hope this helps.... i will look for part numbers again when i get home from work at 130p..... the 3110-3301 relay i mentioned i had a part number from a nordyne parts listing of 620537, but like i was saying the coleman and nordyne say the part number crosses over.... hop this helps, thanks for the quick response...
spdrcr
 

Postby spdrcr » Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:38 am

btw, i can take digital pictures of anything and upload them if that would help (thats how i made sure i got the right sequencer)....
spdrcr
 

Postby spdrcr » Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:51 pm

am i forgotten? here are the only numbers i could see that looked like they may have been part numbers....

Transformer: 90-T403F
E1A-695 9020
BE27192002


Relay that wasnt changed: Potter & Brumfield
K10P-50AT5-24

Thanks in advance :)
spdrcr
 

RE: no fan no a/c, heating element working

Postby Robert » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:02 pm

No sir, not forgotten, just very busy, thus taking longer to get all needed info.


Here is a list of what should be in the box:

Blower Relay # 621867 (Coleman Relay is fine)

T-stat Reversing Relay # 621099 @ $30.56

Transformer # 621299 @ $18.60




Sequencer # 3110-3571 @ $24.41



Shipping = $6.75 to $25.00


Blower Relay controls blower for a/c.

Reversing Relay controls switch from heat to a/c.


Sequencer controls elements and blower motor for heating.


Without testing, can't gaurantee what is wrong, but I would suggest replacing reversing relay, transformer and getting correct sequencer.


They can all be seen and ordered from this page:

http://www.mobilehomerepair.com/ColemanElec.html

Click pics for enlarged views.

To order through PayPal, add to cart and continue shopping or call toll free after 9AM CST tomorrow to 1-877-263-7860 and charge to Visa or Mastercard.


If you are in Canada, let me know for added info.


If you have a part that looks different than these, these are for your control box, so will be fine.


Thanks,
Robert
Some people are Humbly Grateful, while some are Grumbly Hateful.................... Which one are you ?
User avatar
Robert
Moderator
 
Posts: 6413
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:07 am
Location: Tennessee

Postby spdrcr » Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:02 pm

i changed the relay at the top right of the box with no change in symptoms.... the parts listing i have has an exploded view of my box at the top and a listing below and a nordyne logo at the bottom of the page, appears to have come out of a service manual... it lists that relay as 620537, it has a 24v coil and switches 120/240 volts on the other 4 terminals, i dont know what it is for, my listing only calls it a relay....

the transformer is good so i know it isnt that or the relay above....

the next thing is the sequencer.... when i got the above relay, the parts place had a 3110-3571, it looked different than my relay, i think it had 2 extra terminals on one side and it lacked the bars that were soldered from one side of the control to the control circuit on the other side... the woman at the place called nordyne and they told her a different number than the one you gave me... well naturally they didnt have it so they ordered it, when it came in, it was altogether different... so i described mine to her and what was different, she showed me one that had the bars soldered like mine had (i assume these act like jumper wires) and it seemed to be the closest thing to what i had.... it has 2 extra terminals (which i dont believe matters) and it had the jumper bars soldered) i want to re-iterate that the way mine was wired, all the wires except one are on one sequencer, (i assume this sequencer is actually 2 on one plate.) the other one only has one wire and it is on the control circuit terminal.... if you still think i should change it for the right one i will but i dont believe this is the problem because after i changed it the heating elements came on but no fan, whereas before i had no heating elements or fan...

so i guess the main question is what controls the blower in heat, i know sequencer, but doesnt it trigger a relay? t-stat relay? if that was bad would it also make my a/c not work (no compressor or fan inside or out)?

im leaning towards changing that relay first then buying another sequencer if need be, but you are the expert, what should i do?
spdrcr
 

Postby spdrcr » Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:37 pm

sorry, my last post was somewhat bonehead... i re-read your previous post and found what you said to do..... sorry for wasting your time, i will order the reversing relay right now...

is there anyway i can rig this thing to run for a couple of hours before i go to bed, it is chilly now and it is going to be cold tonight.... i realize the hazards of doing this but i just want to run it for a couple of hours to get the edge off in here....
spdrcr
 

Postby spdrcr » Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:57 pm

i dont see a relay with the 621099 p/n... which one is the one that is the same as the 621099?
spdrcr
 

Postby spdrcr » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:00 pm

the one that the description matches what i would think only has 4 terminals, mine has 6....

3110-3311/A Thermostat Reversing Relay

Relay found in some a/c control boxes. Used with 2-wire a/c units. Replaces 3110-3311, 3110-331 & 7970-331. Your price $23.42



the other one i cant see the diagram on the side but i do know that one circuit is normally closed and one is normally open, this is changed when the coil is energized.... (heat/AC selector switch)
spdrcr
 

RE: no fan no a/c, heating element working

Postby Robert » Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:04 am

Sorry about that. The sequencer is on the page I gave link for.


The blower relay, t-stat rev. relay (both listed as just "Relay") and the transformer are here:

http://www.mobilehomerepair.com/NordyneElec.html



Thanks,
Robert
Some people are Humbly Grateful, while some are Grumbly Hateful.................... Which one are you ?
User avatar
Robert
Moderator
 
Posts: 6413
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:07 am
Location: Tennessee

Postby spdrcr » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:28 pm

ok i got my parts in today.... i replaced the sequencer, t-stat reversing relay, blower relay, both switches (cool/heat and on/auto) thermostat. i also checked the transformer and got the 24v (or something real close) coming out so it should be good right?i checked the operation of the unit after each part change... the intermittent variable was eliminated by the auto/on switch, now i have the same symtoms that i can duplicate, so maybe we can get somewhere now...

if the t-stat is at the lowest setting and the unit set to auto & cool, the outside unit chatters and the blower relay chatters.

if the t-stat is at the lowest setting and the unit is set to off (or standby i guess you could call it) and the fan switch is set to ON, the blower relay chatters....

if the t-stat is at the highest setting and the unit is in standby and fan is set to on, the t-stat rev. relay AND the blower relay chatter

if the t-stat is set to the highest setting and auto/heat there is about a 30 sec pause then heating elements come on (can see and feel of course) then after another 12-13 secs there is a click and heat elements turn off, a few seconds later another click elements come on again... this goes on until finally enough heat builds up (because fan isnt running) that it seems the high temp switch is tripped.... while the high temp switch is tripped i cannot duplicate ANY of the chattering symptoms with t-stat or any switch in ANY position....

i also noticed once when the heating elements were on one time, and i turned the heat/cool switch to standby the heating elements stayed on for a few more secs (i figured this to be the sequencer controlling that...)

please help, i know i have been a Pain in the Neck but i gotta get this thing fixed... i have the ability to go further i just need knowledge... i have experience in testing circuits and whatnot, just not real familiar with residential wiring....

also please correct me in any of my comments and things that i "figured" i take critisizm well....

thanks in advance!!

Jason
spdrcr
 


Return to Coleman Service & Repair

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest