MH roof repair-broken rafter found and fixed!

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MH roof repair-broken rafter found and fixed!

Postby Ronald » Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:59 pm

i have 1969 arcraft 12'x60' with metal roof
i have been using henry 208 wet patch roof cement with the 183 yellow glass fabric and have been able to stop leaks at the front of the roof, however there is large area of ponding located across width. it does not leak and i sweep off the water to let it cure better after a month roof cement looks like it has hardened somewhat and seems strong.

the ponding area is from the front of roof about 8" back and across the 12' width and about 4' wide (approx: 40 sq. ft.) the original roof metal is indented causing ponding, it seems difficult to try to repair rafter from inside ceiling to raise up depression area, i would like to believe the henry patch will last but in new england we have hot summer and snow/ice winter, the other 90% of roof is maintainable with aluminum roof coating.

my question is: can the henry roof repair withstand the ponding and weather?
if not, i read about putting a new metal section over width, will a piece of metal from an old above ground pool work as roof metal?
i have two 19'x 4' pieces. i was thinking of bending it at the front and sides a few inches so it is attached on three sides by sheet metal screws/silicone chaulikng on side of house, then use more of the henry 208 wet patch and 183 glass mesh to make the seam across the width, if needed i can use the second "pool piece" 4'x 12' and seam them together to cover the original roof 12' wide and 8' back(minus a little overlap).

the pool pieces are smooth with coatings on both sides they look to be water/weather resistant, since they are designed to work in chlorine pool water and year round weather?

if i proceed with project i can apply roof coating when done to entire roof.
everything i read says nothing works on ponding? i was even considereing putting some "peel and seal" over the roof repair i already made as a quick fix to the depssed area which is approximately 4' wide and goes across almost entire 12' width, thus the pool metal pieces idea? also was considering a little styrofoam between old roof and pool metal to keep from sagging into the low spots?

do you think this will work? any advice is appreciated?
-Ron
Last edited by Ronald on Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: MH roof repair

Postby Dean3 » Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:00 pm

Is this a low domed roof with roll metal crimped/folded at the seams? I would guess there is a truss every 16" like my 1976 home. If that is the case I don't see how the metal could indent 4' wide all the way across the home unless the two middle trusses(1 mid truss if 24" spacing)are damaged. If I'm correct in my assumptions then the New England snow load may be too much to be carried and the damaged truss/trusses need to be rebuilt.

If you span the "pond" with metal it may work to shed rain but then those suspect trusses carry no weight and it is transferred to the neighboring trusses,possibly overloading them. If I'm correct in all this,Someone(JD I think)posted a while back with a method to rebuild these trusses from inside,accessing through the ceiling.

I hope I'm wrong and there's an easier fix.

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Re: MH roof repair

Postby Ronald » Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:38 pm

Is this a low domed roof with roll metal crimped/folded at the seams? yes
I would guess there is a truss every 16" like my 1976 home. If that is the case I don't see how the metal could indent 4' wide all the way across the home unless the two middle trusses(1 mid truss if 24" spacing)are damaged. If I'm correct in my assumptions then the New England snow load may be too much to be carried and the damaged truss/trusses need to be rebuilt.
it looks to be dented or sagging between the roof supports(span width) i am not sure of terminology, the 4' is approx area from edge of roof to where roof looks normal? maybe there are smaller supports?(trusses?) that need repair that hold the metal up?

If you span the "pond" with metal it may work to shed rain but then those suspect trusses carry no weight and it is transferred to the neighboring trusses,possibly overloading them. If I'm correct in all this,Someone(JD I think)posted a while back with a method to rebuild these trusses from inside,accessing through the ceiling.
i am hoping i could span the "pond" and the new metal would be supported by the rest of the roof, i am afraid to tear up the ceiling to repair unless i am forced to. i am thinking the new pool metal can hold the weight of snow, i plan to remove any snow with a roof rake as quickly as it happens.
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Re: MH roof repair

Postby Dean3 » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:27 pm

Ronald,can you get some pics of different angles and post them here? I bet you'll get plenty of opinions/ideas then.
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Re: MH roof repair

Postby JD » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:31 pm

It sounds like a broken truss to me as well. I am not sure if the metal you have would work or not. If it is just flat metal, probably not. It is probably possible to use the metal to patch with, but it is unlikely to span a ponding area without the metal eventually depressing down into that area. Just adding foam to support the new metal may not work either if indeed, the truss or trusses are broken or have come apart. In roofing, 'Ponding' is standing water that remains 48 hours after a rain storm. To be considered ponding, the water would be 24" in diameter and 1/2" deep or 36" in diameter and 1/4" deep, or larger.

Assuming that you do have a broken truss or two, the trusses should be fixed. Short of that, the sealant used in the ponding area would have to be a product that is proven to stand up to ponding.

The only two products I know of (I am sure there are many more) that advertises it's ability to withstand ponding water. One product is Liquid Roof (better than Liquid Rubber by the same manufacturer). http://www.epdmcoatings.com/ The other product is Elasto-barrier, by Ame's Research http://www.amesresearch.com/. The liquid roof product is much more expensive, but it (should) goes on in one coating. The Elasto-barrier would need a minimum of 4 coats, about the thickness of a quarter when fully cured. The Elasto-barrier is also a medium gray color and should be top coated for uv protection. I use Ame's Maximum Stretch. Between the two products, I use the Ames products much more often. I am not aware of any 100% acyrlic product (Kool Seal, Snow Roof, Snow Seal, Henry's Elastomeric, etc.) that can survive ponding. It breaks down, wrinkles up and peels off.

I would not use black asphalt type sealants (Henry's 208) on a metal roof, except for a small emergency patch (Wet/Dry), which would be later removed and replaced with an elastomeric.

Repairing trusses is an advanced repair, but two able-bodied, construction capable people could do it. The repair could be done from the roof or from inside the home. Working from the roof means you are installing a new roof, because you will destroy the old roof. From the inside, first run a razor knife along the joint of the ceiling and wall. I keep a slight outward cant on the cut. Then remove the plastic strips (splines) to expose the staples holding the ceiling panels up. The splines will undoubtedly break some due to drying out. You'd have to replace these with painted wood strips or something of that nature. With the staples exposed, cut the middle of the staple with wire cutters and pull each side of the staple out and repeat about 100 times. Keep some pressure on the panel as without the staples it will want to fall and break. I usually leave 2 staples in on each end, about 1/3 the way in from the end. Then two people get on small step ladders, pressing their head against the panel while removing the final 2 staples.

At this point, you might see a clear plastic vapor barrier with either batt or blown insulation. Blown is a major mess. But pull that stuff out to expose the trusses. I make repair patch sections out of 3/8 cdx ply. You want to make sections that will contour with and support the broken or loose areas, and basically staple the cdx to the existing trusses. If the bottom cord of the truss is also bowing down, I straighten that with an 8' 4x4 covered with carpet and jacked up against the truss to straighten it before securing the plywood to the trusses. There are a zillion details (yeah, not quite) and exceptions, depending on what you are up against. So think each plan through carefully or ask questions.

I hope this helps.
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All information and advice given is for entertainment and informational purposes only. The person doing the work is solely responsible to insure that their work complies with their local building code and OSHA safety regulations.
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Re: MH roof repair

Postby Ronald » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:52 pm

thank you for replies, i am gradually admitting i will need to do the truss repair, i only wish i did more research here before i put the henry stuff on, not sure how to remedy that, except what i read when it gets older and dried out the ames or similar elastomeric with primer can cover it.

i will try to get some pics to post in a day or so, and may return with questions about repairs from inside the ceiling, if i can do it and put up a new ceiling that doesen't look like DIY mess i will be happy... also i would be even happier to throw away my drip trays that catch water leaks!
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Re: MH roof repair

Postby Ronald » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:25 pm

metal_roof_section_2.jpg
what i want to do
metal_roof_section_2.jpg (11.69 KiB) Viewed 1913 times
pool metal.jpg
scrap above ground pool metal
pool metal.jpg (20.9 KiB) Viewed 1913 times
001.jpg
roof ponding area
001.jpg (33.69 KiB) Viewed 1913 times


this is the pool metal i want to cover the ponding area with, it is strong metal and should hold weight of snow ect...as long as i can make a seam that is watertight i think it will work?
if i bend metal over the front and the sides i only need to make one seam across width of roof.
i believe it is stronger than a thin sheet of sheet metal and i could avoid doing truss repair from inside ceiling? even if it did bend down a little to cause ponding (which i doubt), it would still be better than the way it is now.

this may or may not change the advice you have already given me, this way i at least get opinions from all you experienced DIY experts!
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Re: MH roof repair-new post with pics, please read

Postby Dean3 » Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:10 am

Hmmm,I pondered all this last night an had no clue what to say. Now my morning coffee is kickin in.

This paragraph is not advice Ronald,,simply a thought......You seem set on adding the metal.If the roof doesn't collapse and you don't hear trusses cracking as you apply the swimming pool metal then *maybe* it will support some snow too,how much load is anybody's guess......Mother nature can dump 12" in a hurry then blow it into 4' drifts even faster.

I would cut inspection hole (or holes depending on what you can see) in the ceiling,poke my head in with a strong light,and look around to determine if the framing is good or not. I will make no further suggestion as I don't want to feel responsible if you end up shoveling an overnight blizzard back out the window.

Best of luck.

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Re: MH roof repair-new post with pics, please read

Postby Ronald » Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:38 am

you are right about set on using metal, once i get an idea i am stubborn to change and have paid the price for that too. my last look on the roof looks like the trusses are ok and ponding happens between the trusses, i think there has been more weight in past winter when ponding area had some melt/freeze cycles and i had to remove large chunks of ice.

i have no problem using roof rake in a storm to take snow off day or night, since i always remove deep snow off the porch roof.

if i decide to apply metal after i am done i will try to replace section of ceiling, if i managed to restore ponding area by working from the inside i still think i would need to cover the roof anyways, the roof the way it is with ponding area corrected still has comprimised areas that would still have leak problems at some point.

now i have two projects inside and outside, and a third project of how to pay a contractor in the middle of the winter to fix everything for me if it all collapses in on me!
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Re: MH roof repair-broken rafter found and fixed!

Postby Ronald » Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:03 pm

I paid someone to help repair a broken rafter and low spot on metal roof that had large ponding area. The advice on this site was 100% correct and helpful in my decisions on what to do.

A 2x4 was used to splice the broken 2x6 (first rafter), then peices of a second 2x4 (darker color wood) was added to help raise pond area where there is 29 inches with no support from wall to first rafter? Other rafters are 16 in. apart. There are also 2x2 cross members that span the 29 in. space and support the ceiling tile.
005.jpg
2x6 rafter repaired with 2x4
005.jpg (28.82 KiB) Viewed 1679 times

Two months ago, a hole in metal (upper right corner of first pic) was patched from above with roof cement and membrane. Later, area was coated with silicone from the inside to help prevent any leaks (may or may not help?).
The ceiling was replaced with 4x8 sheets of luan, I was glad to have help, he did the work in only a few hours.
010.jpg
finished ceiling with painted luan 4x8 sheets and R13 insulation.
010.jpg (16.46 KiB) Viewed 1679 times

I am very happy with repair and plan to keep up on maintenance and will be applying the elastomeric roof sealer now that repair is done and expect to make it throught the winter with less worry.
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Re: MH roof repair-broken rafter found and fixed!

Postby Dean3 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:14 pm

Way to go!

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Re: MH roof repair-broken rafter found and fixed!

Postby Dean3 » Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:47 pm

Groo wrote:I went to clean out my MH and found a similar broken trussleaving a nice puddle up there to put a big bulge in the ceiling. going to have to brace it if I want it to last the winter.

Odd, it survived plenty of snow weight for years and years, and now a little rain is too much for it.



What exactly do you mean by "brace",,If it is a rafter style that is cut from a single board like Ronald's original ones then a post and brace *might* work ok for temporary,,if it is an engineered truss and the top "band"(lack of proper term)has come apart from the lower web and such then bracing from underneath the ceiling might not do the trick. Here again I suggest looking inside it to see unless you already know for sure.

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